>> announcer: "this week" with george stephanopoulos starts right now. delay and deny. >> how many people can they talk to? >> we're answers. >> democrats issued nearly a dozen subpoenas as the white house stonewalls the impeachment inquiry. the president's personal lawyer now part of a growing investigation as a key witness defies the white house and testifies before congress. just a handful of law makers were in the room. we'll talk to two of them live. and -- >> i campaigned on ending endless wars. >> president trump pulls troops. abandoning kurdish allies now under attack by turkey. the region has been thrown into chaos.

is the president damaging america's credibility? plus president trump declares a big break through with china. is it real? we'll talk to treasury secretary steven mnuchin. >> and -- >> you ready for the bernie sanders on his health, the campaign and a little baseball. >> announcer: from abc news it's "this week." here now chief white house correspondent jonathan karl. good morning and welcome to "this week." from the impeachment inquiry to a possible break through with china there's a lot to get to this morning. first the breaking news out of syria. a senior u.s. official tells abc news at least 23 isis prisoners are believed to escape since turkey began its offensive against the kurds last week. over 200,000 people have been displaced. civilians in northern syria are now going to u.s. bases seeking protection. it's a crisis that began after president trump announced he was

withdrawing u.s. troops from syria's border. abc news senior foreign correspondent ian pannell is on the ground in northern syria a ? >> reporter: yeah, good morning, jon. fast moving events in syria. particularly this morning. two key events we have to bring you up to date on. south ofhe w over 250 isis brides together with their families, 700 people, that broke out of a camp. u.s. troops are based in the area. we understand that turkish backed militants are in the area and we hear that u.s. troops have withdrawn from there. this of course will raise key questions about the future face of the u.s. mission inside syria. the president has said that he believes that isis has been defeated. the reality on the ground is

that the u.s. forces together with the sdf have been working together to try to defeat isis. that battle still goes on. it's overt invading. this leads to the broader consequences of that decision to pull back u.s. troops that then led to the turkish invasion. we're seeing a number of events. the isis brides have left. we're seeing isis prisoners fleeing their jails. there's the possibility of isis reemerging. west virgin we have hundreds of thousands of people on the move. the consequences to u.s. foreign policy and its relationship and status in the middle east is disastrous. jon? >> thank you, ian. joining us now treasury secretary steven mnuchin. secretary, you announced friday that you now have the authority to impose sanctions on turkey for what we're seeing unfold. given that we've seen 100,000 people displaced, these isis

prisoners out, execution of some of america's kurdish allies, what's the hold-up? why don't you impose the sanctions? >> this is a complicated lopingtion. you have a nato ally on one hand fighting against the kurds who were helping us with the fight against isis. we're in daily communication with turkey, both at the defense department, the state department on very specific issues. we are ready to go on a moment's noticed to put on sanctions. as i said, these sanctions could be starting small. they could be maximum pressure which would destroy the turkish economy. the president is very focussed on this. he's offered to mediate the situation. it's a developing situation. >> what are you waiting for? look at what we saw on the ground. this is a rapidly deteriorating situation. >> you are correct. it is moving quickly.

we'll be meeting to day. we'll be taking in new information and we're ready to go at a moment's notice to put on sanctions. we warned the turks. i spoke to the finance minister friday. the state department has had conversations. they know what we will do if they don't stop these activities. >> they don't seem to be listening to those warnings. do we have an obligation -- does the united states have an obligation to defend u.s. allies, the kurds who have fought with us against isis? >> let me explain u.s. allies. >> i understand turkey -- >> turkey is a nato ally. our traditional, major alliance is nato. we have two people that we have support with who are fighting against each other. the president has also said -- >> one has invaded the other to be clear. >> -- he wants to get the troops out of syria and get out of these long-standing wars. we're being very clear with turkey what is going on.

the president was clear in making sure that isis prisoners are not escaping. i've seen your reporting. this is an issue we are on top of. >> let's hear what lindsey graham just had to say about this. he tells axios -- think the president is putting the nation at risk. if i hear the president say one more time i made a campaign promise to get out of syria, i'm going to throw up. your reaction? >> i like lindsey graham a lot. i respect lindsay. lindsey graham and the president are close. this is obviously an issue they don't agree on. these are complicated issues. you can't have one-minute sound bites. nation suritstaff are dent and on top of the situation. our number one issue is making sure that isis is defeated. we'll make sure that occurs. >> lindsey graham and others bipartisan reaction to the sanctions -- the proposed

sanctions you announced, they're saying this is simply not enough. here's what graham said. we're witnessing ethnic cleansing in syria by turkey and the reemergence of isis. the conditional sanctions today will be viewed by turkey as a tepid respond and will embolden their president even more. >> let me explain. this is a multi-step process. the first was making sure we have the proper authorizations. if we go to maximum pressure, which we have the right to do, at a moment's notice the president calls me and tells me, we will do that. we can shut down all u.s. dollar transactions with the entire government of turkey. >> is that something you may do? >> it's something we may do. absolutely. there's full authority within the eo and it's something at a moment's notice the president can tell me to do. >> explain something to me the president said about this. take a listen. >> now the kurds are fighting for their land, just so you understand.

they're fighting for their land. somebody wrote in a very, very powerful article today, they didn't help us in the second world war. they didn't help us with normandy as an kpm parking l ex. >> what is he talking about? first the kurds didn't have a state back then. did he expect the kurds would have been on omaha beach? >> no. i think the analogy is everyone is saying the kurds are these long-standing allies. our role in syria was not to defend land for the kurds. our focus was to defeat isis. you have a long-standing conflict between people helping us with isis and turkey which is a nato ally. i don't think this is as simple as tssn't russia attacking the kurds. this is a nato ally. we've put them on warning. the president has authorized me to shut down the turkey economy and we can do that at a moment's

went on toayt coulhe . e largest deal ever. it's not a done deal yet. do you think this actually happens by next month as he suggested? >> we have a lot of work to do. i'm confident both sides will work very hard and anticipate we'll be closing this. phase one includes very substantial issues. people originally thought this was just going to be about al culture purchases. there are multiple chapters. the intellectual property rights chapter will be included in its entirety. financial services, foreign exchange, agriculture structural issues which isn't just selling things. >> it's not just selling soy beans. >> it's not just about selling soy beans. these are structural issues around bio tech and an enforcement chapter.

it includes substantial purchases of agriculture. $40 to $50 billion. as the president said, i hope our farmers can deliver this. it's a gigantic amount. >> one last question on china before you go. i want to play you something the president said last week. >> china should start an investigatens. what happened to china is just about as bad as what happened with ukraine. >> could you settle something with me? some of the president's allies suggested he was joking there, that he wasn't being serious. was he serious there? does he think the chinese should investigate the bidens? >> i can't comment on whether he was serious. i can comment on we have never had any discussions in the trade meetings. >> the bidens never came up? >> that's correct. in the oval office when the president was asked about this in front of the vice premier,

the president was very clear. they can do whatever they want. people who are trying to imply the president is asking for things, i think this is ridiculous. >> secretary mnuchin, thank you for coming in to tyo coming up two members of congress face off in the latest developments in the impeachment inquiry and my conversation with senator bernie sanders and how for the first time he's taking on elizabeth warren. >> there are differences between elizabeth and myself. elizabeth has said she's a capitalist through her bones. i'm not. capitalist through her bones. i'm not. (vo) rising rents and home prices are pushing americans further from the places they work. this is straining the backbone of our communities. to do our part, wells fargo has committed one billion dollars over the next six years to develop housing affordability solutions. putting affordable homes within reach, this is our commitment. this is wells fargo.

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a vote in the full house and a vote were authorized would you cooperate? >> we would if they gave us our rights. >> it's time to put a vote on the floor, a resolution for the inquiry. they want a fight? let's arm ourselves with the full p >> president trump and democrat john garamendy. they weigh in on whether the house should formally vote to start the impeachment inquiry. i'm joined by republican congressman lee zeldin and congressman jim himes. congressman himes, let's start with you.

we heard from ambassador marie yovanovitch, somebody who testified to your committee. despite the fact that the white house ordered her not to do so, tell us how important is she to this inquiry. >> she's very important to one of the parts of the inquiry. apart from the president holding up aid to ukraine, expecting to get a commitment that there would be an investigation of his political opponent, the moving of that transcript to the secret server, the third piece that's deeply concerning is a united states ambassador who mere aske her tour for a year, is then summarily told to get on the next plane to washington to be removed from her post for what f appears to be giuliani's effort with his various minions to achieve whatever aims giuliani was trying to achieve in

ukraine. this has nothing to do with the united states foreign policy interests, but the president's personal interests and rudy giuliani's interests. she's very important. she's an example of abusing the american public trust in favor of narrow objectives. >> congressman, why is this all happening behind closed doors? why the secrecy? this is not a classified deposition. why not do it out in the open? >> first of all, all transcripts will be scrubbed for classified information and made available for the american public to see. there's two reasons why these depositions are happening behind closed doors. one reason is when you're talking to ambassadors and other u.s. government officials who have regularly had access to classified information,au iin classified information. that's the most important

reason. the second reason is, when you're interviewing people around the president, political supporters of the president, you don't want them to be able to look at each other's testimony and coordinate testimony. these are a group of people who have shown they have no problem whatsoever lying if they think it serves their interests. you don't want to give them the opportunity to look at what they're saying and coordinate their stories. >> this is an impeachment inquiry. there's so much at stake here. why shouldn't the white house be able to have someone in there to cross-examine witnesses? >> jon, that's not the way thiss process works. i understand that's the republican line. because they can't defend the president's behavior, they're trying to throw up all these procedural things. the reality is this is akin to an indictment. the trial happens in the senate. in the senate there are opposing

parties able to cross examine witnesses. the chief justice presides over the trial-like proceeding. impeachment is more like a grand jury indictments. it happens behind closed doors. evidence is presented. the question you're asking is what the republicans are incorrectly saying should be occurring. the trial happens in the senate. >> congressman, this much is entirely true. in the previous impeachment inquiries with richard nixon and bill clinton, the house held a vote and there were rights afforded to the president's side and to the minority party. why don't you go forward and hold a vote to formally launch this impeachment inquiry and get the entire house on the record. >> we may. remember, again, there's no requirement that that occur. the republicans -- >> that's the way it's been done. >> -- want people to believe that's true. well twice in our history when we've had impeachment inquiries.

>> three times if you cou johnson. >> okay. we've regularly impeached federal judges, impeached other officials without a vote on the floor. i don't much care about the vote on the floor. if there's a vote on the floor, i'll vote for it. the point is it's not required under the rules. there's absolutely no right being denied to the republicans when we interviewed the ambassador and interview anybody else. republicans get equal time to ask questions. if there is a trial in the senate, they'll be afforded all the other due process that they have and will always be entitled to. this idea that the process is somehow not fair is just a fiction designed to avoid the question of whether the conduct of the president is good or not. >> just to be clear before you go you would be okay seeing a formal vote on the floor of the house? >> i would be okay -- my own opinion is we ought to take this off the table because it's such a nonissue.

there's no doubt in my mind, if nancy pelosi does that, she'll have the votes and it will pass, but it's not required. >> congressman himes, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> congressman zeldin, a lot of republicans have had a hard time answering a simple question. do you believe it was appropriate for president trump to ask the president of ukraine to investigate joe biden? do you think that was an appropriate request? >> i believe our country should be working together to get to the bottom of what happened whether it's joe biden, hunter biden, there shouldn't be an immunity from scrutiny because joe biden is running for president. >> we're not talking about that. would you ask a foreign leader to investigate one of your political opponents? >> you have to answer in this -- i haven't. in this political case the question is what did barisma, joe biden and hunter biden do?

i have a huge issue with the fact that hunter biden with no energy experience gets paid $50,000 a month from a corrupt company solely because he's the vice president's son. the vice president who was the most conflicted guy in the obama -- >> this issue with the ukraine was raised before the president brought it up. it's about the president going to a foreign leader and asking him to investigate a rival. >> i am also -- >> that's okay. >> just like president trump i'm greatly concerned by that arrangement. it's either illegal or should be illegal what they did. we might have a policy conversation. the president -- >> is the president's request of great concern? >> i believe we should be working together our governments with regard to these allegations, with regards to the company that's been corrupt, with the fact they would hire hunter biden. the fact that joe biden was selected to run point and be in,

be in charge of the loans and so much more and go to ukraine and threaten to withhold $1 billion from ukraine unless they fire the state prosecutor who was prosecuting these individuals. those are all facts. there are people in the media saying it's been debunked. it's not true. everything i've said is 100% accurate. i have a problem with that. l former ambassador to ukraine. did you find her to be a credible witness? >> sure. i wish that over the course -- there's issues where she contradicted herself during her testimony. i believe that every single word in real time should have been in front of the american public so you knew everything she said. instead it was -- >> you're okay with all the transcripts coming out. you want to see fiona hills next week and all the people the president doesn't want to testify you want those transcripts to be out? >> the president said there should be a process. there should be a vote for impeachment inquiry.

there should be a process. the minority party should have subpoena power. the president should be able to have counsel present and present evidence. there should be a process. instead what adam schiff wants is to get the united states drunk on his favorite cocktail. there's three in greed one, cherry picking leaks, two representing facts, three outside lied. he lied when he gave his opening statement. he lied when he said president trump asked president zelensky to manufacture. it obliterate the fairytale that president trump demanded an investigation open against the bidens in order to get aid from the united states to ukraine. >> it's clear he brought this up when the issue of aid to ukraine was raised. >> this is what ambassador

volker's transcript will show you. >> the president said it was a perfect phone call. do you think it was a perfect phone call? >> i think there were great things discussed. >> do you believe it was a perfect phone call? >> i think that conversation -- by the way the only thing that's being criticized -- it's not impeachable. the fact that we're trying to tear down a sitting president -- i have a problem with that. we should be passing usmca and lowering the price of prescription drug prices. >> we're out of time. thank you for being with us. >> thank you. coming up my conversation with senator bernie sanders he attack. we'll talk about the state of his campaign and play a little baseball in burlington. i'll be right back. of of his mom! maria! maria ramirez...

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>> everything that happens every day weighs on how people feel about you. my own view is that -- i think it's the voters' view. look at the totality of who a candidate is. >> the top 12 democratic presidential candidates return to the debate stage tuesday, including senator bernie sanders who has been off the campaign trail since having a heart attack last week. at 78 years old, sanders is the oldest candidate in the field, and one of three in their 70s, so will age be -- factor in determining the democratic nominee? we asked nate silver. >> let's start with something easy to prove. the leading democrats are really old by presidential standards. if elected, elizabeth warren would be 71 on inauguration day. joe biden would be 78 and bernie sanders would be 79.

historically 55 is the median age for presidents at inaugurati. big of a concern with the three oldest candidates currently one, two and three in democratic polls. biden has stayed at the top of the polls in the 30% range all year. warren's numbers have gone up and sanders continues to rake in cash from his supporters, many of whom are quite young. there's a difference between warren on the one hand and biden and sanders on the other hand. president reagan was 77 when he finished his second term. both biden and bernie would be older than that on their first day in office. do voters see a difference between the early 70s and late 70s? they might. one poll earlier this year found 62% of voters had reservations about voting for someone older than 75. that compared to 48% who said they would be less likely to vote for someone over the age of 70. how age plays out is tough to say. if a candidate makes a gaffe or has a medical problem, voters

may or may not attribute that to age. in polling this week perceptions about whether sanders could beat trump declined after his heart attack. his overall in the standing in the polls has been roughly unchanged. one more thing. it may be obvious but it's important to remember that the current president is pretty old too. any democratic nominee would be facing donald trump who at 74 is the oldest president to ever serve. my bottom line is this, age won't necessarily cause biden and bernie's current supporters to abandon them. it may make it hard to expand their coalitions later on. >> our thanks to nate. yesterday i traveled to vermont and talked to senator sanders at his home in burlington. how are you feeling? you ready for the debate and ready to get back out there? >> i'm feeling well. i look forward to the debate and look forward to getting back to a very vigorous campaign. >> are your doctors okay with that? >> let me be very clear and backtrack. there's nobody who has run a more vigorous campaign than i

did. we're talking about three or four rallies a day and town meetings and so forth. after a short period of time we'll return to them. not the first day back. >> your doctors are okay with that? >> yeah. >> are you going to release your medical records? >> absolutely. >> when do you plan to do that? >> as soon as we can. we intended to do that before the heart attack. we'll certainly do it with all the information available. >> what should the standard be for medical records? should joe biden release all his? >> yeah. when you're running for president of the united states, the american people have a right to know the condition of your health. that's a standard that should be applicable to all candidates. >> you said you didn't think for a minute about dropping out when you had the heart attack? is that true? >> as soon as i learned what the situation was and able to talk to the doctors, yes. here's the story. >> how? >> heart attack is a scary word, but i had a 45-minute procedure.

two stents were placed in my heart because i had a blocked artery. it's a fairly common procedure. people are back on their feet pretty soon as the case with me. you got to watch yourself. watch your diet. beetteatxercre awa. there were symptoms i should have picked up on. i was more fatigued, despite a heavy schedule, than i should have been. i wasn't sleeping as well. occasionally i was wobbly. i should have put two and two together, and i didn't. i'm sorry about that. i hope anybody watching it does that. go to the doctor if you think you have symptoms and take care of the situation. >> you may come back stronger than before. >> i got an artery not blocked. that's a good thing. >> that's a good thing. if you had significant serious concerns going forward, would you drop out of the race? >> i don't want to speculate about what might have been. i am where i am.

let me tell you this. you asked me what thought that i had a good blue cross blue shield insurance program. i had medicare on top of that. what i did think -- and i thought about a lot. what happens to millions of people who don't have good health insurance and get sick and don't go to the doctor or leave the hospital with tens and tens of thousands of dollars in debt. maybe one of the lessons i have to tell you i learned is i'm going to fight even harder than i have for medicare for all. i'm more committed to that struggle than i was a few weeks ago. >> you and elizabeth warren have pretty close to identical points on issues. >> not quite. >> what do you say to people that say they would pick her because she's eight years younger than you, just didn't have a heart attack and on the positions you're pretty much the everymerican hato own choice a

candidate that they want, and elizabeth warren has been a friend of mine for some 25 years. elizabeth and myself. elizabeth, as you know, said she's a capitalist through her bones. i'm not. i think the situation we face in this country of the greed and corruption that is existing in washington, that is existing at the corporate elite level where you have massive amounts of price fixing going on with the drug companies. we're the only major company on -- country on earth not to guarantee health care, where we have right now as we speak in the fossil fuel industry, you have companies making billions of dollars a year in profit. by the way, they're destroying the planet. business as usual and doing it the old fashion way is not good - i nt to t op to cavo

class, the corporate elite, enough with your greed and corruption. we need real change. >> you don't think that's what elizabeth warren is saying? >> elizabeth is a friend of mine. she'll speak for herself. >> you just said there were differences and you said a label. >> elizabeth has said it herself. if i got the quote correctly, she considers herself to be a capitalist in her bones and i don't. i will not tolerate the greed and corruption and income wealth and inequality and so much suffering going on in this country. >> she's built her campaign about a plan for everything. she hasn't put out a health care plan. >> elizabeth is a friend of mine. talk to her. i have put out a health care plan. it's called medicare for all. we will tell the insurance current dysfunctional system. >> i want to turn to this week's news the president's decision to withdraw troops from syria.

you were very critical. >> it's an outrage. the kurds have lost about 11,000 soldiers in the fight against isis. 20,000 have been wounded. what does it say to the world when the president gets off the phone with the president of turkey and sends out a tweet and says, by the way, we're deserting these people who put their lives on the line and fought with us. it sends a message to the entire world that you cannot trust the united states in foreign affairs. doesn't matter what the president says because tomorrow he might reverse himself. it a out -- is outrageous. how you deal with that situation is another matter. it's not great secret, i'm a strong opponent of endless wars. i opposed vigorously the war in iraq. >> he sounded a little bit like bernie sanders when he was talking. >> except he lies. the difference between trump and me is he lies.

i don't. ally that lost 11,000 troops fighting against terrorism through a tweet and a discussion with the president of turkey. >> i want to ask you about the impeachment inquiry. what do you think about nancy pelosi's decision not to hold a vote to move forward with the impeachment? >> i don't think that's the major issue. i'm glad that impeachment -- i have called for an impeachment inquiry since may. i want it to go forward as expeditiously as it can. i think at the end of the day the evidence is there to impeach trump. here is the real issue. what happens if, as i expect will be the case, trump is impeached? the constitution tells us the trial comes to the senate. will mitch mcconnell do the right thing? will he have a full trial where the american people's senators, i'll be one of them, can hear the evidence regarding what

party ahead of country and not do this. i think whatever your view is, you think he's innocent, fine, you think he's guilty, the senate will make its decision as will the american people. that has to take place. >> our thanks to senator sanders. coming up, the round table debates another busy week. we'll be right back. table discusses another busy week. we'll be right back.

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let's bring in the powerhouse round table. abc news political director rick klein, "washington post" congressional reporter rachel bade, editor in chief, jonah goldberg and stephanie brown james. thank you for joining me. rick, bernie sanders took a shot at elizabeth warren. i think that's the first time we've seen that. >> bernie is here to play. that was an unmistakable message to me, jon. bernie sanders recognizes not only the concerns raised by his health issues in the last couple of weeks, but also the growing census that says elizabeth warren is the candidate to beat. sanders needs to make that distinction. this debate on tuesday is critical for him. if he's going to say, i'm here to stick around, it has to be those contrasts. if this is a debate of capitalism over socialism, that's going to make a lot of

democrats also on the stage very uncomfortable. >> who wins that battle? >> it depends on where the party wants to go with it. it may be that joe biden wins that battle because he's the one to say, look. we have to be careful where we go with things like medicare for all. >> rachel, we saw the fund-raising numbers come out for the third quarter. sanders at the top followed by warren, $25 million, $24 million, buttigieg, number three. joe biden fourth in fund-raising. that does not sound like a campaign -- i mean he still leads a lot of the polls. not all of them, but a lot of the polls. what does that mean for biden? >> obviously people are going to start to question whether this whole ukraine conversation is starting to hurt him, right? joe biden, the campaign has said that this is not something they are worried about. they think it sort of puts him at the front to make it look like he's actually the top candidate that's going up against trump and it's better for him because it looks like him and trump and the democratic candidates are on the side, but perhaps clearly this will be a problem for him, and tuesday will be interesting to watch the

debate stage to see if other democratic candidates decide to go after him on ukraine. i mean, do they say, why didn't you tell your son not to, you know, take $50,000 from a company that, you know, some people said had connections to corrupt figures? why did you let this happen? you were sloppy. >> the biden campaign tells me this morning they have a boost in online fund-raising since the report. >> you better hope they did. >> that's right. the big number two is if you add sanders and warren together, that's $50 million of grassroots money that's pouring in, and not available to joe biden. >> jonah? >> i think it's very difficult for the democrats to go after biden on the debate stage in part that the case for impeachment really rests on the idea that the bidens may have done something that appeared bad, but is not wrong like what the trump white house is saying they did. it's like a rally around biden effect. i think the ukraine story, it's

not so much that that's hurt biden. it's that biden doesn't seem to know how to respond to it, how to take advantage of it. he should have a big boost in online, you know, money raising from the grooassroots because everybody wants to sort of take his side against trump, but he doesn't seem to have the game to exploit it as effectively as you would think he would. >> but stephanie, is it a legitimate issue? i mean, is it an issue that should be part of this that the then-vice president's son had this business arrangement with a major ukrainian energy company at the time when biden was the point person on ukraine. at the very least, it is a raging, you know, blatant appearance of a conflict of interest. is this a legitimate issue for biden's rivals? >> i think it's a conversation that actually will come up on the debate stage on tuesday. i think, you know, if you have tulsi gabbard -- >> who do you think will bring it snup? >> i think tulsi gabbard will bring it up. >> that makes sense.

>> especially those who are in lower tiers have made the debate stage and they have to set themselves apart, and now everyone is fair game especially vice president biden. it's fair game for them to say, hey, look. we have to question his judgment here. i don't think it should be as big of an issue on the stage that it's going to be because we have to figure out where these candidates stand on medicare for all, and health care, but i think it will come up on tuesday. >> what's your take on sanders? do you think he comes back from this? he looks pretty good. i got to say. you saw. >> he looks well. if that's good, then that's fine, but, you know, i think that for him to be back out here is really kind of to , questionable. i just think his family must be having heart attacks that he's back here on the trail, but look. he says he's in it all the way now, and, you know, i thought he was in it all the way before, but, you know, it's a situation where we have to have more conversations like this where people are saying, i am

different from this candidate because of this, and i think that he kicked it off today by saying his difference between senator warren and i think you will hear a lot more of the differences an tuesday. >> i want to turn to impeachment and something the president said last night. >> impeachment? i never thought i would see or hear that word with regard to me, impeachment. very ugly word. it means so much. it means horrible, horrible crimes and things we can't even believe it. it's a witch hunt. >> he also told me on friday that he thinks it's helped him, you know, his rallies are bigger now, but rick, what's your sense this does seem to really be getting under the president's skin? >> this has changed i think the nature of how the president has to respond to things, and it looms large, and i feel like it has gotten to him and his supporters. they recognize that this is a serious moment. this is not something that can be laughed off as much as the president will do that. it's not just about legacy

either. it's about the practical nature of how this president transacts business over the next coming months. he is effectively handcuffed by this process. you can forget about other things happening on capitol hill, and i think he has to be careful in any kind of relationship he has, and especially as this gets broader potentially as more people are involved, as his inner circle gets more involved with rudy al giuliani's involvement, this is an awkward situation, and not ideal. >> as i jump in, it seemsin tha the frustration is building in him, as the democrat has hit a stride, and the white house has hit a snag. the democrats have been fighting for ten months to investigate this president, look at poll numbers against him, and they have not been able to do it until this controversy broke, and in the past three weeks, they have been able to get witnesses in to testify, the turn over text messages that are very damaging to this president, and they will try to use to, you know, in their impeachment inquiry and at the same time as

they are making their case against biden and his son hunter, his two associates that were his right hand on this biden investigation were just arrested and so, you know, the democrats are really sort of moving ahead right now, and the white house is having a problem, and i think you can see that reflected in the frustration with the president lashing out. >> so why is speaker pelosi not holding a vote on this? >> she thinks that by doing that, she's going to be giving in to sort of a trump talking point and it will take the conversation away from the substance at hand. i mean, this week they're going to have gordon sondland coming in to testify. this is a former ambassadoext ce officials were working with ukrainians to set up -- >> he said don't testify, and he's going to anyway. >> this is someone who knew about, you know, the white house was trying to get ukraine to promise publicly to investigate the bidens in order for them to come to the white house for this heads of state meeting. he was in the thick of it, and

this is where speaker pelosi wants to focus right now, and if she holds the vote, people will pivot to that. >> they're talking about moving goal posts. if you do that, does it change anything as ho how the white house reacts? >> more and more they're saying the -- the white house is saying, if you do the process the way it's been done before, and you hold this vote, then we would cooperate with you, and pelosi can just call the bluff, and then the white house has basically no talking points left. >> stephanie, why don't they -- we heard the congressman tell us, and he seemed to sound like, bring it on. let's have the vote. do you think she should? >> this is where i agree with bernie sanders in saying that, look. at the end of the day, this is really about what's going to happen at the senate. it's kind of -- look. if nancy pelosi holds the vote or if she doesn't, at the end of the day, this is about what happens in the senate. i don't think she's going to hold the vote just for the reasons that you mentioned, but at the end of the day, will

mitch mcconnell make sure that a fair and transparent process emerges in the senate? i think that's the real question at hand here, and not so much the focus on if nancy pelosi will hold the vote because i don't think that she is. >> the only what she would actually hold the vote is if a fwe federal judge rules that the only way they can get this stuff that the white house is keeping from them, and they're fighting to get subpoena material. if the federal judge rules you're not in a real inquiry, and you can't get this unless you vote, then i think they do it. >> when does she want to see a final vote on the impeachment? >> they decided this was for real three weeks ago, and they were going to speed ahead on this path, and they were looking at the holidays to finish up the inquiry. now they're at the cross roads where they wanted to focus on ukraine and get it done quickly by the end of the year, bus all these other scandals keep popping up, and there are threads that some of the democrats want to pull. was he pressuring china to investigate joe biden?g austas

on osuggested?ey n counterinvestigation on the mueller report, and do they look at these? if they do, that would drag into 2020 which would have some overlap with, you know, the presidential election. >> will that be the smartest strategy? to do a more comprehensive investigation or get it done? >> it's somewhat fact-dependfac, right? depends what they find if they can get a clean shot with the ukraine stuff. maybe that makes sense. my suspicion when you talk to people around trump, they see this as something to drag out, and so the question you asked before about how this trump thinks this is helping himg, but al -- him, but also makes him upset, and nate silver addressed this. extremely favorable for trump has increased and for the base, this is great for trump, and for trump in many ways, the base is

a pool of narcissists, and it has anti-trump feelings wrong the majority of voters and whether trump can figure out that, you know, pleasing the base again on impeachment stuff is actually a battle, electoral strategy remains to be seen. >> look at the fox news poll, and this was not the only one, but this was on the station that the president watches. the fox news poll showed 51% saying the president should be impeached and removed from office. >> right. >> yeah, and a lot of these voters are independent voters who at the end of the day trump needs if he is going to win again in 2020. well, if he's still in office to win again in 2020, and so, you know, i think that for the democrats this is a situation for them to win or lose. for them to get this done quickly and not have it sprawl out of control i think actually is a good strategy for them right now because it keeps the pressure on information being concise or the white house being offkilter and not knowing what's happening next, and this is a moment for nancy pelosi to be the conductor she has been so

far. >> the white house has a point. if it does look like a rush to judgment partisan thing, and they're not giving some due process to the white house, i think that is bad for the democrats and it's a good talking point for the white house. >> the democrats now, it's working. they're looking at the poll numbers and speaker pelosi outlined for her members in another conference call, they're staying narrow. they'll keep thisarrowly tailored as possible and won't give in to false equivalencies. they'll plow ahead with this, because they believe this is working. >> it's interesting you have seen republicans hammer the president on what's happening in syria and turkey, but i mean when larry hogan came out, the governor of maryland and said he's in favor of impeachment inquiry, and mitt romney did his thing. do you see any signs of republican weakness? >> as far as they're going, and i mean i can count the number of republicans who said what he did was wrong, but not impeachable

on one hand is sticking with the president. the frustration you're seeing expressed about syria is a lot of pent up frustration they're feeling right now with the impeachment inquiry, and they're sticking with the president and they're letting it out in this outlet. not to say they don't authentically and seriously care about what's happening with the kurds, but i think, you know, the policy issue -- >> we are out of time. >> we're out of time. >> thanks. rachel, jonah, stephanie, thank you very much. we'll be back. that is all the time we have. thank you for sharing part of your sunday with us. check out "world news tonight" and have a great day.

up next, a deadly crash in contra costa county. what chp says led to the commission. and a final chance to see the blue angels at fleet week. a live look at mt. tam, mostly to partly cloudy skies right now. we're looking for a wind shift to provide for a cooler day today. i'll have the details next on "abc 7 mornings" at 9:00. in the human brain, billions of neurons play in harmony. for people with parkinson's, some neurons change their tune, causing uncontrollable tremors. now, abbott technology can target those exact neurons. restoring control and harmony, once thought to belost forever. the most personal technology is technology with the power to change your life.

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